篮球帝

The Bucks have a +4.1 Net rating with Giannis sitting. With him playing, they have a Net Rating of +16.1 points per 100 poss. He leads the league in Net Rating, Def. Rating and almost every advanced stat

字母哥休战时，雄鹿的净效率值是+4.1；字母哥出场时，雄鹿的净效率值是+16.1。字母哥的净效率值、防守效率等几乎每个高阶数据都领跑全联盟。

Bucks with Giannis: 1763 minutes played, +16.1 Point differential per 100 possessions.

Bucks without Giannis: 1367 minutes played, +4.1 Point differential per 100 possessions .

Giannis also leads the NBA in BPM, RPM, PER, PIPM, WS/48 .

This could really be the first MVP & DPOY season after decades.

有字母哥的雄鹿：打了1763分钟，平均每一百回合净胜对手16.1分；

没有字母哥的雄鹿：打了1367分钟，平均每一百回合净胜对手4.1分。

而且字母哥的BPM值、真实正负值、效率值、影响力正负值和WS/48均是联盟第一。

他或许真的会成为二十多年来单赛季同时包揽MVP和赛季最佳防守人的第一人。

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[–]NBA problemat1que 11 指標 8小時前

Back to back MVP.

背靠背MVP！

[–]Raptors shahed2806 23 指標 8小時前

got my vote for both awards

猛龙球迷：我觉得MVP和DPOY都是字母哥的

[–]Bulls Young_Baby 3 指標 4小時前

Should get DPOY and MVP if there is any justice

公牛球迷：但凡有任何正义存在的话，他就该包揽。

[–]Bucks panick21 107 指標 11小時前

Great, us getting fucked with Giannis sitting is improving his MVP case.

雄鹿球迷：厉害，字母哥不打、球队被爆，反倒能提高他的MVP说服力。

[–]Bucks bumpinuglyz 6 指標 6小時前

Yeah but LeBron is old.

雄鹿球迷：没错，可老詹年纪大好多啊==

[–]Warriors Coolguynumber01 27 指標 7小時前

There’s no winning bro. If the Bucks win while Giannis sits the media will say that Giannis isnt as valuable to his team since they’re winning without him, so LeBron is therefore more valuable.

If yall continue losing while Giannis sits, the media will see that the Lakers will end up with the best record so LeBron should get MVP for leading his team with the best record

勇士球迷：老弟，字母哥正反都是个输。如果字母哥休战雄鹿赢球，媒体就会说，字母哥对球队的价值没那么大，因为他的球队还能赢球啊，所以詹姆斯的价值就更大。

如果字母哥休战雄鹿输球，那媒体就会觉得湖人最后能拿下联盟最佳战绩，所以詹姆斯应该拿MVP，因为他带领球队夺得了最强战绩。

[–]Bucks ierics 6 指標 6小時前

MVP, don't get it twisted. After all its a regular season award. Bron's Chasing the CHIP.

雄鹿球迷：咱们说的是MVP啊，别曲解了。毕竟这是个常规赛奖项。老詹的目标是总冠军！

[–]Magic madmaxp0618 84 指標 13小時前

Imagine all the crying if Giannis wins MVP and DPOY, media gonna go crazy about how LeBron and AD were "snubbed."

魔术球迷：要是字母哥包揽MVP和DOPOY那得有多少人哭哭啼啼，媒体也会各种造势说詹姆斯和戴维斯被“阴了”。

[–]raobj280 90 指標 13小時前

what? no shit? same thing will happen if Lebron wins, people will be crying saying Giannis should have won

啥？扯淡呢？要是老詹拿了MVP那你这个说法也成立啊，大家会哭着喊着说应该是字母哥拿。

[–][WAS] John Wall ShaqMadeOne3Pointer 41 指標 13小時前

20 more games that we're going to have to see posts that simply state statistics of players to make MVP arguments.

We know he's an MVP frontrunner. Don't just throw stats out there and call it discussion-worthy.

奇才球迷：再过20场，你们就能看到各种帖子贴出数据为球员拿MVP展开争论了。

咱们都清楚，字母哥是MVP领跑者。真不必再贴数据了，不值得讨论啊。

[–]Lakers DarkSoulsDarius 18 指標 10小時前

Can we talk about AD's incredible performances in both games that the Lakers just won against the Clips and Bucks.

He was great in the Clips game and in the Bucks game he started slow, but basically carried us in the 4th and especially when Lebron was sitting he was trading clutch baskets with Giannis to keep the lead. He had great defensive plays too.

Throughout the year he's had amazing, clutch defensive plays.

And without AD we're not that good of a team at all so while are our offense tanks when Lebron sits(mainly due to having no other backup playmaker outside of Rondo who is beyond washed at this point), our defense would suffer far more greatly if AD was sitting. The team can handle stretches without him, they couldn't handle a season of trying to makeup for amount AD anchors defensively. Not to mention we would have a lot more losses without his defensive plays.

This entire argument is dumb because it ignores just how important AD is to our team.

湖人球迷：那咱们能聊聊戴维斯在对快船和雄鹿那场比赛中的出色发挥不。

打快船的时候戴维斯表现极好，打雄鹿有点慢热，可在第四节也接管了比赛，尤其是在老詹休息的时候，戴维斯和字母哥交替命中关键球，从而帮我们维持领先。他也有一些非常出色的防守。

这整个赛季下来，戴维斯表现相当好，还有些关键防守。

没有戴维斯的话，我们根本没有这么强，所以虽说老詹下场时我们的进攻下挫，可戴维斯下场时对我们的防守影响还要大得多。偶尔没有戴维斯我们能勉强对付，可要是长时间没有戴维斯在防守端压阵，我们真不行。要是没有他的防守，我们会多输好多场。

楼上的整个说法都很蠢，因为它完全无视了戴维斯对我湖的重要性。

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[–][LAL] Dwight Howard azertuser 292 指標 13小時前

Do you think that Giannis should win the Kia Defensive Player of the Year Award ?

湖人球迷：你们觉得字母哥会赢得本赛季最佳防守人奖项吗？

[–]Johnnydayy 17 指標 12小時前

Who should win it. People saying Davis but the bucks have 2 potential candidates for dpoy and the best defense.

谁能赢呢。有人说是戴维斯，可雄鹿在DPOY和赛季最佳阵这方面有两个潜在候选人啊。

[–]Heat F4ctBringer[S] 69 指標 12小時前

If AD wins DPOY, then LeBron plays with a #2 who leads the team in Points, Rebounds, Steals and Blocks and is also the DPOY. This wouldn't be a good look for LeBron's MVP case. I don't know who deserves DPOY more, I think AD is a better rim protector but Giannis is more versatile and a better perimeter defender.

Giannis does have Lopez, who is another DPOY candidate and Bledsoe who is elite defensively but AD also has LeBron, Green and Bradley who are all very good defensively. It's hard to choose - I'd probably go for AD because I think Lopez impacts the game defensively more than any teammate of theirs I mentioned.

热火球迷：如果戴维斯拿下DPOY，那就说明，詹姆斯的身边有一个得分、篮板、抢断和盖帽均领跑全队还是最佳防守人的二当家。这就不利于老詹冲击MVP了。谁更该拿DPOY我不知道，我觉得戴维斯是个更强的护框者，可字母哥更全面，也是个更强的外线防守人。

字母哥确实有洛佩斯这种DPOY候选人级别的队友，还有布莱德索这种防守顶级的辅助，可戴维斯身边也有詹姆斯、格林和布拉德利这些防守悍将啊。太难选择了——或许我会选戴维斯，因为我觉得洛佩斯对防守的影响力比戴维斯和字母哥的任何队友都大。

[–]Nets Yup767 5 指標 12小時前

I think a lot of the reason that Lopez effects the game in the way he does is because of Giannis tho.

Along with this, I dont think AD does as good of a job protecting the rim as several others. Maybe if he played Centre more, but he is often away from the hoop. I'd take Gobert over AD, partially for that reason.

While I'd also take Giannis over Gobert

篮网球迷：可是在我看来，洛佩斯之所以能以他的方式影响比赛，主要是因为字母哥的存在。

此外，我觉得戴维斯的护框没有其他几位好。或许他应该多站中锋位置，可他常常是远离篮下的。在这方面，我觉得戈贝尔比戴维斯强。

然而我还觉得字母哥强于戈贝尔。

[–]Kuivamaa 1 指標 8小時前

Yeah, I don’t understand this whole Lopez for DPOY argument. He is an excellent rim protector but he was a constant target of the raptors pick and roll in the EFC last year. And he doesn’t seem very different this year.

是啊，我无法理解那些洛佩斯应该拿DPOY的论据。他是个很出色的护框者，可在上赛季东决，他就是猛龙挡拆的针对对象。而且他这赛季在这方面也没多大变化。

[–]Nets Yup767 1 指標 8小時前

Tbf that was because raptors had enough shooters, usually he plays drop with the Bucks in the regular season. But yeah he is a fantastic rim protector, but I think a few different players could do similar, and a bunch could do similar while adding other things defensively

篮网球迷：说真的，这是因为猛龙当时有足够多的投手。通常来说，洛佩斯在常规赛是收缩防守的。不过呢，他确实是个厉害的护框者，可我觉得有几个球员都能做到类似的效果，又有些人既能做好护框又有其他的防守能力。

[–]Lakers DarkSoulsDarius 37 指標 9小時前

And if Giannis wins then his competition won DPOY while also being a leading offensive player.

There is no case against Giannis this year.

湖人球迷：如果字母哥拿了DPOY，再加上他在进攻端的领跑性表现，那MVP也没跑了。

字母哥今年拿MVP真是没啥指摘的。

[–]DuranchDressing 7 指標 9小時前

Exactly. The only thing that could maybe swing it in LeBrons favor is if Giannis doesn’t play the rest of the year and LeBron finishes really strong with the #1 seed in the NBA, with a huge winning steak to finish the season. I think Giannis needs to play more than 57 games, but even then it’d still be close and I’d still likely lean Giannis with a smaller sample of games just because of how ridiculous he’s been.

But, this is a pointless argument because Giannis will play again this season rendering the whole hypothetical moot. Giannis wins the MVP. The end.

就是。除非字母哥剩下的常规赛不打，而且詹姆斯强势发挥带队以一大波连胜收尾冲上联盟第一，不然的话，詹姆斯还真没啥优势。我觉得字母哥至少得打满57场比赛，即使是这样，他和詹姆斯的差距也不大，我还是会看好字母哥，因为他这个赛季一直以来都表现很强。

然而，这种假设是无意义的，因为字母哥常规赛还会打的。他会拿下MVP，话题结束。

[–]76ers grangeman 13 指標 6小時前

If you don't think Giannis is in the top 3 for DPOY you must think Brook Lopez is on Rudy Gobert's level

76人球迷：如果你不把字母哥当做DPOY前三候选人的话，那你肯定以为洛佩斯和戈贝尔一个级别。

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[–][MIL] Ray Allen MilwaukeeMan420 15 指標 11小時前

So if the bucks are healthy they have zero excuse not to rip through the east.

雄鹿球迷：所以如果雄鹿这赛季全员健康的话，那我们就没有任何理由打不进总决赛了。

[–]Bucks Holythreat 40 指標 12小時前

Given the historical numbers if we don't win the title this season will be a big failure!

雄鹿球迷：毕竟这已经打出了各种历史性数据，要是这赛季没拿冠，那就是一场大败！

[–]Kuivamaa 10 指標 8小時前

I may get hyped for that but I am still not sure that your supporting cast will show up in the finals. And Giannis (or any player for that matter) can’t win the title alone. Last year game 6 of ECF was like that, as long as Ilyasova and the rest were finding target from deep, Giannis was finding space and he entered 4th quarter with 20pts or so. But at that point the rest went silent, raps started triple team on Giannis, he went tentative with the ball and it was game over.

兴许我会很亢奋，不过我还是不确定你鹿的辅助阵容在总决赛能不能行。字母哥可不能靠自己夺冠。上赛季东决G6就是这样，只要伊利亚索瓦和其他人的三分开了，字母哥就能找到空间，他进入第四节的时候已经得到大概20分。可就从那时起，其他队友哑火了，猛龙直接对字母哥三人包夹，他拿球非常犹豫，然后比赛直接被带走。

[–]Bucks Holythreat 10 指標 7小時前

Losing 4 in a row in the ECF was embarassing, besides Bledsoe and Bud have a history of underperforming in the playoffs so skepticism that people have about the Bucks is valid!

But I think there was improvement from the Bucks in some areas compared to last season: Donte incredible resurgence after injury (he can replace Bledsoe if he shits the bed again), Giannis improving his jump shot (his 3pt% is still bad, but his midrange fadeaway/turnaround jumper has to be respected), Bud finally allowing Middleton to shoot his midrange shots more often and unlike last season the offense isn't one dimensional - while not often enough during the half court offense the Bucks are using more pick n' rolls and posting up!

The wall/zone defense is still a problem against us since it reduces the pace which sometimes make the Bucks offense stagnant due of thr lack of offball movement from shooters, but Giannis improved his awareness and passing when he is getting triple teamed!

I don't remember contenders that wen straight to the finals or won a title in the first year if being contenders, experience is important and the Bucks acquired it last season - whether role players will crumble under pressure or not is something that we will discover!

雄鹿球迷：东决连丢4场确实丢人，而且布莱德索和布登霍尔泽都有季后赛歇菜的前科，所以大家对雄鹿的怀疑也是合理的！

可是我觉得这赛季的雄鹿比起上赛季还是有进步的：伤愈之后的迪文琴佐强势崛起，字母哥的跳投进步了，布登霍尔泽也终于允许米德尔顿大幅采用中距离出手了，而不是像上赛季那样的单维度进攻。而且我们这赛季的挡拆和低位更多了！

破解区域防守依然是我们的难题，因为这会降低节奏，而且有时会让我们的进攻停滞，因为我们射手的无球移动不够。不过字母哥在面对多人包夹时的意识和传球都提高了！

你不能指望我们第一年成为争冠球队就直接冲进总决赛吧，经验是很重要的，刚好我们上赛季收获了经验。至于角色球员在压力下是否会再次歇菜，咱们拭目以待！

[–][CHI] Brian Scalabrine CoachDT 5 指標 7小時前

I don’t think Bud has a history of disappointing in the playoffs. Dude is just a master of overachieving in the regular season. He really had us thinking that Hawks team was something.

No disrespect cause I love him but ain’t no team whose best player is Paul Milsap or Al Horford going far in the playoffs.

公牛球迷：我觉得布登霍尔泽不存在打季后赛让人失望的前科。他是很擅长带队在常规赛打出预期的。他当年一度让我们以为那支老鹰很强。

可当你队内最佳球员是米尔萨普和霍福德的时候，谁都没法带队在季后赛走很远。

[–]Bucks T1didnothingwrong 2 指標 4小時前

For real, you play the best teams in the playoffs. If there's a talent gap, there's only so much you can do to cover it up

雄鹿球迷：还真是，毕竟季后赛碰上的都是最强队。如果有天赋上的鸿沟，那你再怎么做也填补不了。

[–]Lakers caughtinthought -3 指標 10小時前

I mean, Giannis has had a monster season but I still find it hilarious how the minute LeBron leaves the "weak East", people disregard the discrepancy immediately.

Tell me: How does the Lakers season strength of schedule compare to the Bucks? The reality is that, up until this point, the Lakers have had a top 5 hardest schedule in the NBA while the Bucks have the easiest. In fact, there isn't a single Eastern conference team in the top 9 strength of schedules (according to composite power rankings, source).

Seems patently weird to go on and on about advanced stats when one man's competition is inherently far weaker than another's.

湖人球迷：我觉得吧，字母哥这赛季的表现确实很猛，可我觉得搞笑的是，这詹姆斯才离开“孱弱的东部”没多久，你们居然就可以立即无视东西部的实力差距了。

你们告诉我：湖人这赛季的赛程强度和雄鹿比咋样？现实是，到现在为止，我湖的赛程强度联盟前五，而雄鹿最弱。这么说吧，没有一支东部球队的赛程强度能排进前9.

明明那个人所面对的竞争要比另一个人弱很多很多，可你们居然反复强调所谓的高阶数据，真是奇了怪了。

[–]Enigma512 29 指標 10小時前

Giannis has a better record against the West than the Lakers have against the East though. It's a fact the Lakers have had a tougher schedule but I'm not going to ignore that Gianis dominated both conferences.

可是字母哥面对西部球队的战绩强于詹姆斯面对东部球队的战绩。湖人的赛程强度确实更强，可是不要忘了，字母哥在两个分区都打出了统治力。

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[–]East LamzaxFCB300 10 指標 13小時前

I can’t believe they want to give LeBron the MVP over this man

真是不可思议啊，有些人居然觉得詹姆斯可以力压这个男人拿下MVP

[–]Lakers hiawake 2 指標 11小時前

So... Why did Nash and Rose win MVP over LeBron? (If it's all about numbers or adv stats)

I hope you know that LeBron had also better numbers than both of them, right?

湖人球迷：所以呢……为啥纳什和罗斯当年能力压詹姆斯拿MVP？

希望你们知道，詹姆斯当时的数据比他俩都好，对不？

[–]Magic LeBronSimmons 13 指標 11小時前

LeBron in 2006 averaged 31-7-7 and led the Cavs to a 50 win season.

Steve Nash won MVP after leading PHX to 54 wins and posting 19-4-11 (league leader assists)

MVP isn’t necessarily just numbers.

魔术球迷：詹姆斯在2006年场均31+7+7，带领骑士拿下50胜。

可还是带领太阳拿下54胜的纳什赢得了MVP啊，而且他的数据只有19分4板11助

MVP又不是只看数据。

[–]East LamzaxFCB300 4 指標 10小時前

Giannis' case not only about numbers, he leads the best team in the NBA lol wtf are you talking about

那字母哥也不是只有数据领先啊，他的球队也是联盟最佳战绩，哈哈哈，你说毛线呢

[–]Magic LeBronSimmons 15 指標 10小時前

The Lakers have one more loss than the Bucks.

The Bucks have a 2.5 game lead with ~20 games to go.

You’re acting like the season is over, wtf are you talking about?

魔术球迷：湖人就比雄鹿多输一场。

这还剩20多场呢，雄鹿就领先2.5个胜场。

你搞得像赛季已经结束一样，你说尼玛呢？

[–]Enigma512 11 指標 10小時前

I dont know about Nash but I'm going to assume him not winning MVP in 2011 was because of the Miami Superteam thing playing next to Wade and Bosh and the Bulls did win more games too.

纳什怎么拿的我不知道，可我觉得吧，11年老詹没拿MVP，应该是因为那支迈阿密超级球队，他的身边有韦德和波什，而且那年公牛的战绩也更好啊。

[–][PHI] James Nunnally dnzgn 3 指標 7小時前

People voted for Nash because Suns lost Joe Johnson in the free agency and Amare missed the whole season and Suns still won 54 games. I don't necessarily agree but most people don't know that context.

76人球迷：06年大家投给纳什，纳什因为太阳在自由市场失去了乔-约翰逊，并且小斯缺席了整个赛季，太阳依然拿到了54胜。大多数人怕是不知道这个背景吧。

[–]rins4m4 4 指標 7小時前

Why you want to give Lebron MVP, Giannis really deserve it this season. How you say laker is worse support for Lebron, you bulid it that way.

干嘛要把MVP给詹姆斯，字母哥这赛季就该拿。总说詹姆斯的辅助阵容更弱，可你就是按这种方式建队的啊。

[–]Raptors NewestBalance6 6 指標 12小時前

Lol Bucks without Giannis wouldnt get out of the second round

猛龙球迷：哈哈哈哈，没有雄鹿的字母哥都冲不出东部第二轮

[–]Lakers MaskedPB 11 指標 7小時前

Lakers without Lebron probably wouldn’t make playoffs

湖人球迷：没有詹姆斯的湖人或许进不了季后赛

[–]yoyowatup 3 指標 10小時前

I don’t understand how all these advanced stats have Giannis so much better than Lebron and yet the bucks perform better than the lakers with lebron and Giannis off the floor, the bucks are 6-2 without Giannis, not counting the game last night where they sat everyone, and yet the bucks and lakers have very similar records.

It could easily be argued that Giannis has a better overall supporting cast than Lebron, especially when you consider fit. This may be unpopular but I wonder how much of an impact Giannis grabbing 10 uncontested rebounds a game impacts the advanced stats. Offensively Giannis averages 4 more points but 5 less assists. He is a bit more efficient though and better defensively, even though lebron has been really good this year on that end. I just think the advanced stats are not doing the comparison justice. If Giannis was that much better than Lebron I don’t think their records would be nearly even. Especially with the lakers having the second toughest schedule so far and the bucks having one of the easiest.

字母哥比詹姆斯厉害的这些个高阶数据我不懂，可要是抛开詹姆斯和字母哥来看雄鹿和湖人，雄鹿的表现更好，没有字母哥的雄鹿6胜2负，还不算他们昨天主力全休的那场比赛。尽管如此，雄鹿和湖人如今的战绩依然差不太多。

明显可以说字母哥的配套阵容整体实力强于老詹啊，何况你还得考虑适配性。我这个观点或许很少人提及，可是字母哥单场拿下的10个非对抗篮板对他的高阶数据有多大影响呢？进攻而言，字母哥的均分多4分，可助攻少5个。不过他确实更高效一点，而且防守更强，虽说詹姆斯这赛季的防守也很好。我就觉得这种高阶数据拿来比较不合理。如果字母哥真如数据所说比詹姆斯强那么多，那两队的战绩压根就不可能这么接近。何况湖人的赛程强度目前还排在第二，而雄鹿在末位。

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来源：Reddit

编译：云长刮个痧